ZONE and Fair Use, parody, and parody and Fair Use in adult media Options

[T_K_17]

My problem is that ZONE's being paid to do it, not that it's making the material.

Anyways, I don't like buisnesses ripping off other buisnesses but I'm fine with people doing it. You get what I'm saying?

"Well, I have this subscription to Mobius Unleashed because I'm a fucking nitwit, I guess I don't have to buy anymore Sonic games!"

It does suck that people are paying for stupid shit like that, but they aren't actually depriving the original creators of anything in this case, so they aren't really getting ripped off.

[Agnitio Ex Machina]

Pirating is never ethical. It isn't moral. It is ripping off intellectual property. Yes, you can make a stand and good for you for doing that. You had all the makings of a boycott without actually giving up anything. At the end of the day though, you stole. If you don't like a product or the TOS that comes with a product, don't buy it. If you want to circumvent it, that's fine, but never claim the moral high ground or give it to someone to rip off a company. While I personally have been known to play the, "Fuck you I will unlock the data myself card", it isn't really a moral argument so much as that one is a "You can't stop me from modifying me from accessing content on disc. Thanks a lot Hot Coffee Scandal for setting a precedent!"

How else are bad companies supposed to be punished, then? There's no real method for getting a corporation to regret a bad tact if there's no law or anything remote to that. Would you rather people get ripped-off? There are always those stupid enough to willingly get ripped-off but pirating at least helps to displace this and make a statistical statement if something is very unpopular. There's also the case where the product is simply not supplied in a location, such as India or Eastern Europe. That's the rare case where I tolerate bootleg businesses selling pirated copies of a game since the populace would not have access to it otherwise. Even if it is a crime, does that make those who otherwise cannot obtain a game bad people? Are those who pirate a game in order to avoid an unwanted feature and do not have the ability to code the game to be exempt from it bad people? I'd like to see your response. Also, before you try to label me as a pirate, I've never pirated in my life.

"Well, I have this subscription to Mobius Unleashed because I'm a fucking nitwit, I guess I don't have to buy anymore Sonic games!"

It does suck that people are paying for stupid shit like that, but they aren't actually depriving the original creators of anything in this case, so they aren't really getting ripped off.

I can tell you that even corporations deserve to be able to enforce copyright laws when people are trying to make money off of something that isn't theirs. That is, unless it's the exception I posted earlier.

This post has been edited by Agnitio Ex Machina: Apr 3 2012, 08:28 PM

[Viashino_wizard]

How else are bad companies supposed to be punished, then? There's no real method for getting a corporation to regret a bad tact if there's no law or anything remote to that.

Don't buy their products then.

[Agnitio Ex Machina]

Don't buy their products then.

I wish it still worked like that but the complexity of the "online economy", global economics, and general stupidity caused by overpopulation makes it null. One less customer won't affect a corporation's bottom line since they're so massive. Bad publicity does. When the report for the amount of copies of Spore that were pirated came-out, EA stock took a hit.

[T_K_17]

I can tell you that even corporations deserve to be able to enforce copyright laws when people are trying to make money off of something that isn't theirs. That is, unless it's the exception I posted earlier.

If they were selling bootleg Sonic games or MLP DVDs or something, I'd agree 100%. But as I said earlier, the original creators lose absolutely nothing here, not even "potential sales" like on torrents. Really, the only actual bad thing they are doing here is being perverted and not very creative, which isn't worth suing someone over. Maybe if there was official My Little Pony porn, there would be a benefit to legal action, but we would have much bigger problems then.

[Arc Baltic]

How else are bad companies supposed to be punished, then? There's no real method for getting a corporation to regret a bad tact if there's no law or anything remote to that. Would you rather people get ripped-off? There are always those stupid enough to willingly get ripped-off but pirating at least helps to displace this and make a statistical statement if something is very unpopular. There's also the case where the product is simply not supplied in a location, such as India or Eastern Europe. That's the rare case where I tolerate bootleg businesses selling pirated copies of a game since the populace would not have access to it otherwise. Even if it is a crime, does that make those who otherwise cannot obtain a game bad people? Are those who pirate a game in order to avoid an unwanted feature and do not have the ability to code the game to be exempt from it bad people? I'd like to see your response. Also, before you try to label me as a pirate, I've never pirated in my life.

I am not judging you. Sorry if my post read like that. Most of us pirate or have pirated at sometime. I am willing to bet you'll be hard pressed to find someone, anyone, who hasn't helped themselves to something that is IP. As for morally justifying any of the above, you don't don't have a right to IP. If you don't like Spore like DRM practices don't buy the game. You have no entitlement to IP. You vote with your wallet. Torrenting something doesn't give a message you'd think it gives. The suits look at it and instead of realizing their stupid ass DRM protection schemes are a terrible idea, instead assume that people just want free. So then they try to screw the consumer more. They still see their game and ideas are very very popular.

I can tell you that even corporations deserve to be able to enforce copyright laws when people are trying to make money off of something that isn't theirs. That is, unless it's the exception I posted earlier.

Honestly, corporations usually make enough retarded amounts of money it is hard for me to be phased one way or the other. The only reason they aren't protecting their IP is it doesn't justify their bottom line. It isn't that they can't afford it, they don't want to.

[DeanTheAdequate]

Meh, if they were producing something worthwhile to persecute I'd say they were in the wrong.

Zone makes a pretty spot on parody, but ultimitely it's not going to decrease ales of the official product so, meh?

There is space for the underground market to thrive if only it makes little to no sense to sue the poor. Look at the case of Disney vs the "Air Pirate Funnies"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Pirates

[Shmeckie]

Zone makes a pretty spot on parody

A little fuzzy on what constitutes a parody, are ya?

[Arc Baltic]

A little fuzzy on what constitutes a parody, are ya?

To be fair it is kinda open to interpretation.

[Max-Vader]

I hate to say this, because I definitely have at least a foot in the bandwagon now, but... You really gotta stop doing things that maintain that new kid smell.

See, this is your problem. You assume that just because you agree with something everyone else agrees with, you are joining a "bandwagon". It seems you have the urge to be the contrarian "voice of reason" all the time, but that doesn't work if the majority-opinion you oppose happens to be right.

If you don't like Spore like DRM practices don't buy the game. You have no entitlement to IP. You vote with your wallet. Torrenting something doesn't give a message you'd think it gives. The suits look at it and instead of realizing their stupid ass DRM protection schemes are a terrible idea, instead assume that people just want free. So then they try to screw the consumer more. They still see their game and ideas are very very popular.

My question is this: If you don't buy the game, in what way are you sending a message that you don't like DRM? All the companies can see is plummeting sales. If they are dense enough to implement DRM in the first place, do you really think they'll have a thought beyond "Well, guess this game/series is not popular anymore, we'll stop making it!"

To be fair it is kinda open to interpretation.

At best this is a lame trolling attempt out of spite and hypocrisy, but not a parody.

[Agnitio Ex Machina]

My question is this: If you don't buy the game, in what way are you sending a message that you don't like DRM? All the companies can see is plummeting sales. If they are dense enough to implement DRM in the first place, do you really think they'll have a thought beyond "Well, guess this game/series is not popular anymore, we'll stop making it!"

Another good point that contributes to my argument. Pirating is, in essence, the only way to show there's a demand but at the same time, making a statement that there's something so wrong with the product, one doesn't want to buy it.

This post has been edited by Agnitio Ex Machina: Apr 4 2012, 09:33 AM

[DeanTheAdequate]

A little fuzzy on what constitutes a parody, are ya?

Well, copy then. Frankly the only problem I can see is that people are willing to buy Hentaikey accounts for... well anything. No matter how good the sex, it's the internet and if you can't find free porn you fail at the web forever.

[Arc Baltic]

See, this is your problem. You assume that just because you agree with something everyone else agrees with, you are joining a "bandwagon". It seems you have the urge to be the contrarian "voice of reason" all the time, but that doesn't work if the majority-opinion you oppose happens to be right.

Wrong. It isn't that I dislike to agree with the majority, it's that I don't care for how the mob behaves. The whole yell and be angry at someone/something where every little thing invokes shouts of mortal kombat and overblown cynicism is too much for me. Just pointing out his behavior is obnoxious I am more afraid of joining in the tribal dance where we beat him with sticks than the actual point being made. He's irksome, and he does try our patience, but, I don't feel he deserves the level of anger he receives yet (a keyword now, mind you). Plus all you do when you talk aggressively to a newbie trying to assimilate is make them more prone to be an aggressive asshat because they think that is the norm.

Normally my disagreements aren't with the general idea, but, the execution and level of dialog. Like bronies for example. Completely agree they are annoying, take a cartoon way too fucking seriously, and are somewhat of a nuisance. Labeling them as all people who masturbate to pony porn though... can't really go with that... Ya dig? I am all for lambasting the hell out of something that deserves it, just, not everything needs to be played up as the new forum Satan.

My question is this: If you don't buy the game, in what way are you sending a message that you don't like DRM? All the companies can see is plummeting sales. If they are dense enough to implement DRM in the first place, do you really think they'll have a thought beyond "Well, guess this game/series is not popular anymore, we'll stop making it!"

So it is better to steal?

At best this is a lame trolling attempt out of spite and hypocrisy, but not a parody.

Wha? Are we talking about Zone? or my post? If the former, defining an art is pretty difficult, making legal decisions on art gets more convoluted, and when rulings have been relatively inconsistent for over half a century I'd forgive Dean for being wrong. If the latter you totally got me bro. Good detective work.

This post has been edited by Arc Baltic: Apr 4 2012, 02:24 PM

[Max-Vader]

So it is better to steal?

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm just saying that your method will fail just as hard in making these morons aware that DRM is crap. In fact, I think almost nothing will be able to convince them to drop this ridiculous method.

Wha? Are we talking about Zone?

Duh. Not everyone is out to get you, you know.

[Agnitio Ex Machina]

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm just saying that your method will fail just as hard in making these morons aware that DRM is crap. In fact, I think almost nothing will be able to convince them to drop this ridiculous method.

Only when the pirates outpace the customers several games in a row, they'll know that their DRM is a waste of money. Maybe then they would fix their reputation so that they get legitimate customers back.

[Arc Baltic]

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm just saying that your method will fail just as hard in making these morons aware that DRM is crap. In fact, I think almost nothing will be able to convince them to drop this ridiculous method.

Yes, Max, asking a question is words in your mouth. So if you don't think boycotting is the best answer, do you think stealing is better? Stealing in my opinion propagates an escalation of DRM. It is a positive feedback loop in that scenario. You really only have two choices in my exchange with AEM.

Duh. Not everyone is out to get you, you know.

Sorry, perhaps you could speak with some clarity instead of a one liner that can be interpreted two ways while taking some kind of stand against me in the opening of the post. The "this" was really hard to figure out what you meant.

Only when the pirates outpace the customers several games in a row, they'll know that their DRM is a waste of money. Maybe then they would fix their reputation so that they get legitimate customers back.

No all that will do is make the DRM get more sophisticated...

This post has been edited by Arc Baltic: Apr 4 2012, 04:10 PM

[Max-Vader]

So if you don't think boycotting is the best answer, do you think stealing is better?

I'm just stating my opinion that both options are equally worthless in stopping DRM. So the question really becomes wether you think the game is worth the hassle of it's DRM. If it is, you buy it. If not, then not.

Sorry, perhaps you could speak with some clarity instead of a one liner that can be interpreted two ways

I don't see how. Since when do you do parodies? Not to mention I have already mentioned ZONE's hypocrisy, so obvioulsy I am referring to him.

[Agnitio Ex Machina]

No all that will do is make the DRM get more sophisticated...

They've already tried doing more sophisticated DRM. It doesn't work. The best form of DRM that isn't actually intrusive is Steam.

[Arc Baltic]

They've already tried doing more sophisticated DRM. It doesn't work. The best form of DRM that isn't actually intrusive is Steam.

They keep adding more and making it more intrusive. They will continue because pirates keep beating them. Few developers are actually getting privy to the idea it is impossible...

[T_K_17]

They keep adding more and making it more intrusive. They will continue because pirates keep beating them. Few developers are actually getting privy to the idea it is impossible...

Ubisoft did eventually back down on their intrusive always-on DRM after it blew up in their faces a few times.