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> Game of Thrones, Incest, backstabbing and more!
Post #41
LordYAM


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post May 12 2015, 01:29 PM
QUOTE (TheOneAndOnly @ May 12 2015, 03:42 AM) *
It's fine. I'm actually more seeing the exact opposite: every week there's a snotty book reader crying something like "they didn't have Jeor's crow standing on Jon's shoulder when he was elected Lord Commander DnD are soiling Martin's flawless work" or "holy shit Tommen looked 2 in season 1 and now he's like 25 lol DnD are basically making fanfiction at this point"

I liked Cersei's plot in Feast as well, but rather I was vested in her character than the political intrigue of it all, how Cersei thinks she's so smart and so much better than Tyrion or Tywin. Some wish Cersei was crazy as she was then, but we don't have the luxury of seeing inside her head, and the audience needs to care on some level about her.

Of course, I would rather have Margery's framing as is; fuck, anything is better than Loras the Gay Guy. But like I said, it just wouldn't be feasible for the medium; there's too many characters and components to keep track of and not enough time when taking the other plot lines into consideration. Taena, Aurane Waters, her plot to get Trystane killed, the Faith Militant, dicking around with Bronn, the Kettleblacks, Margery's cousins, the framing the lies and the tension between the families; these are all things the show would need to execute effectively across ten episodes while expecting the readers to keep track of everything. I, personally, don't think such a thing is feasible, or at least wouldn't make for good television, as sad as that is.

With how her plotline has been going so far, it seems that we've been first exploring and understanding the character of Cersei and her thoughts through the choices she's made (filling the small council with bootlickers, hiring the Faith Militant to ensure her hold on King's Landing, her growing paranoia). Judging from the preview, it looks as though we may be getting into the politics side of things next week.

As for Littlefinger, I honestly think the guy is just all about creating chaos in Westeros, just fucking with all of the high lords until he's the last man standing. But it's honestly hard to say at the moment, even in the books; we probably won't know his endgame until the tail end of the series. Trust me, I don't want to see the North stories butchered, but I actually don't mind Sansa replacing Jeyne. Judging from how her plot goes is going in the books, she goes around the Vale, meeting all of the lords, gaining their support, and then returns North after all the fighting's done. In the show, they just had her reveal herself to the Lords Paramount, and now she has their support (for pretty valid reasons). Sure, we lose some of the political intrigue that occurs in the Eyrie and how it operates, but like I said, in the grand scheme a show with limited time and budget can't spend time smelling the roses.

I suppose what does concern me the most is if David and Dan cut something because they feel it's cuttable without realizing it's vital to a character later on. Case in point, Jon as Lord Commander. In the books, that "event" at the end occurs because he made choices that go against the Night's Watch and its vows, as well as the wildlings. Though it's too early to say, and they've got like three episodes before they get to Hardhome anyway, but as of right now it looks like they're setting it up so the only reason why the thing happens to Jon is because he's too buddy-buddy with the wildlings and nothing else. It removes a lot of the grayness of the whole scenario and makes Jon look like an angel pure as snow.



Season 2 was an odd one for changes; some were wonderful (Arya Tywin for instance. With Tywin we only learn his backstory in A Feast for crows; before that he's the intelligent cunning but kind of merciless genius). We see a more human side from Tywin (his relationship with Arya) and it felt easier to understand why he acted the way he did (we find out that his father's generosity nearly destroyed the family, and that he still loves his father despite considering him weak). Arya learns to be a better liar (being in less but more danger). The blackwater episode kicked ass (most of the changes that did occur was budget related and apparently they were still able to lobby for more than was planned). Talisa was kinda dumb but the worst offender is the house of the undying (which contained a lot of plot points and foreshadowing).
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Post #42
Al_Cone


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post May 20 2015, 05:45 PM
Continuing from the Laughing at Freaks thread.

I don't see why it would have been impossible to omit Sophie Turner and Sansa from the season and return to them in the next. It's one thing to tool around with an ancillary character and change their storyline in some fundamental way (Talisa in place of Jeyne Westerling; Loras taking on both Garlan and Willas Tyrell's roles), but Sansa has been a POV character from the beginning of the series. She's a character who's important to the story of A Song of Ice and Fire. Swapping her role with Jeyne Poole's completely alters the way her character is going to unfold, which will completely alter the way that the rest of the series unfolds. And I don't think it's going to be for the better.

There's a moment in the second season where Littlefinger's talking with Tywin, and he says something like "I have important news about Arya Stark," and the scene cuts away before we can hear what that news is. I always figured that he was going to tell Tywin about Jeyne, but Jeyne apparently doesn't exist, so...so what was so important that Tywin needed to hear? Did I miss something?

It's not like the writing has been at its strongest lately, let's face it. Littlefinger's entire plan is incomprehensible to me, and apparently involves giving the last legitimate Stark heir to people who will have no reservations about killing her once they're through with her. And also telling Cersei about it. I...okay? It'll probably work out because the writers need it to work out, but the specifics of it are bound to be very, very dumb. Littlefinger in general has failed to impress me in anything after the Purple Wedding (killing Lysa without having a fall guy was not one of his better notions, and he needed Sansa to pull his buns out of the oven, which in itself doesn't make a lot of sense, but that's another post enturely), and he's kind of a pale shadow of what he is in the book series.

So in addition to being a complete betrayal of the character and a setback in communicating Martin's vision of the world (which isn't quite what they're going for at this point, I know, but this is supposed to be a labor of love), it's handled in a stupid, clumsy way, with a flimsy justification that Sansa's just not interesting enough without someone dicking her violently.


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Post #43
TheOneAndOnly


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post May 20 2015, 06:26 PM
QUOTE (Al_Cone @ May 20 2015, 06:45 PM) *
Continuing from the Laughing at Freaks thread.

I don't see why it would have been impossible to omit Sophie Turner and Sansa from the season and return to them in the next. It's one thing to tool around with an ancillary character and change their storyline in some fundamental way (Talisa in place of Jeyne Westerling; Loras taking on both Garlan and Willas Tyrell's roles), but Sansa has been a POV character from the beginning of the series. She's a character who's important to the story of A Song of Ice and Fire. Swapping her role with Jeyne Poole's completely alters the way her character is going to unfold, which will completely alter the way that the rest of the series unfolds. And I don't think it's going to be for the better.

Agreed. I guess they just didn't want to cut out two major plot lines. Or maybe something good will come out of all this; who the fuck knows. Not us, only the writers.

QUOTE
t's not like the writing has been at its strongest lately, let's face it. Littlefinger's entire plan is incomprehensible to me, and apparently involves giving the last legitimate Stark heir to people who will have no reservations about killing her once they're through with her. And also telling Cersei about it. I...okay? It'll probably work out because the writers need it to work out, but the specifics of it are bound to be very, very dumb. Littlefinger in general has failed to impress me in anything after the Purple Wedding (killing Lysa without having a fall guy was not one of his better notions, and he needed Sansa to pull his buns out of the oven, which in itself doesn't make a lot of sense, but that's another post enturely), and he's kind of a pale shadow of what he is in the book series.


I think Littlefinger's plan is to, in some way, have a foot in the North no matter who he sides with. We honestly don't know what's going through Littlefinger's head, and I don't think we will until the end of the series. Until then, we have to deal with conveniences like Sansa saving his ass from the Lords of the Vale. I guess he just knew she would defend him, which isn't so much of a stretch to believe at least in my point of view. But you're right; in comparison to the books, the characters just aren't as good. When you take that away, they're all still strong characters, but it's when you compare them to their book counterparts you realize just how much better they could be/would be with more time or better writers.

Season 5 has been pretty messy, there's no doubt about it. David and Dan has had to trim down and mix so much content in order to make a good television show while at the same time is not convoluted and costly (due to the limitations of the medium Vs. book). I always keep in mind that they have ten episodes a season, and only seven seasons, to tell this giant story. Even though HBO is willing to give them more than seven, David and Dan refuse. My guess is they had the whole thing, or at least the general idea of it, mapped out from the beginning, and they don't want to unwind their plan. Taking this into perspective, I can be forgiving in most cases. Some however are just too bad to ignore.

The Dreadfort fight in S4 was pretty fucking bad, and the Sand Snakes and the whole plot in Dorne has been awful. Few saving graces, Jaime has good character motivations for doing it, he and Bronn have had pretty sharp dialogue, at least in comparison to the Snakes, and Alexander Siddig kills it as Doran Martell. I'm hoping that, now that everybody is captured, this subplot can be redeemed and we can stop having silly shit like...this:

I think that because of everything they've had to change, season 5 will end up being the weakest in the show. Again, we have no idea what they plan on doing next season. For all we know, Jaime could be sent north like Baelish implied and then that's when they'll bring back the Brotherhood and Stoneheart.

As for Sansa, this definitely hurt her character. I don't think the showrunners are that stupid; they know this would have been a setback, so maybe they're going to have both Sansa and Theon help each other. I can't really give as solid an opinion until I see how the rest of the season unfolds.

This post has been edited by TheOneAndOnly: May 20 2015, 06:30 PM


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Post #44
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post May 25 2015, 08:31 AM
Aw man, that Sand Snakes fight scene gif...what happened to the guy who choreographed the Mountain vs. Red Viper fight?!


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Post #45
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post May 25 2015, 11:04 AM
Wait...why the fuck is it actually Sansa and not Poole being forced to marry Ramsay? The whole fucking point of Poole getting Boltoned was so Sansa could avoid that fate.


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Post #46
TheOneAndOnly


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post May 25 2015, 11:21 AM
QUOTE (Agnitio Ex Machina @ May 25 2015, 12:04 PM) *
Wait...why the fuck is it actually Sansa and not Poole being forced to marry Ramsay? The whole fucking point of Poole getting Boltoned was so Sansa could avoid that fate.

Because the books have too much shit going on to translate well into television and I guess they didn't want to cut both Sansa and Bran from the season. This is what Al and I have been talking about.

And the point of Poole getting tortured was, story-wise, to trick the Boltons into maintaining an alliance with the Lannisters by giving them "Arya Stark." Narratively, it was for Theon's redemption. It was never done because of Sansa; no one but Littlefinger knew where Sansa was. That aside, before she was spirited away Sansa was already married to Tyrion, so the Lannisters weren't going to send her to the Boltons to marry Ramsay

EDIT: Last night's episode was damn good all around. Most important thing, I think, is that Sansa is hurting but she's definitely not broken like so many people thought she'd be.

This post has been edited by TheOneAndOnly: May 25 2015, 11:25 AM


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Post #47
Al_Cone


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post May 25 2015, 11:24 AM
QUOTE (Agnitio Ex Machina @ May 25 2015, 12:04 PM) *
Wait...why the fuck is it actually Sansa and not Poole being forced to marry Ramsay? The whole fucking point of Poole getting Boltoned was so Sansa could avoid that fate.


Little slow on the uptake, aren't you?


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Post #48
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post May 25 2015, 01:19 PM
QUOTE (Al_Cone @ May 25 2015, 12:24 PM) *
Little slow on the uptake, aren't you?

Was trying to figure out what was going on since I never bothered watching the TV show, knowing it would turn into the shit it is now.


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Post #49
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post May 25 2015, 01:37 PM
QUOTE (Agnitio Ex Machina @ May 25 2015, 02:19 PM) *
Was trying to figure out what was going on since I never bothered watching the TV show, knowing it would turn into the shit it is now.

You haven't watched it but call it shit. Cute


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