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> Wasted Potential, plots that could have been, if only...
Post #41
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post Sep 2 2015, 06:25 PM
QUOTE (TheLittleAsshole @ Sep 3 2015, 02:29 AM) *
No because they don't do a complete 180 on previous protagonists and the new Jojos always had new personalities that are completely different than the other Jojos

That's not even really the point here. In Jojo, each installment has a different protagonist. In AA, Phoenix was the protagonist for three entire games before getting the shaft in favor of Apollo and undergoing a complete personality transplant. Oh, and he also changes the way the justice system works just so he can manipulate it to take down the villain. Did I mention that during the time this game was made, Japan was working it's PR to get people to accept the new juror system? Well, that's why Phoenix' little stunt saves the day. It's intended as blatant propaganda. Ironically, this new system Phoenix developed that is touted as superior to the old, broken court in the game is incredibly biased and abused to hell and back to get the results he wants.

Basically what I'm saying is that even though Apollo himself is a decent character, was it really worth it ruining Phoenix by making him a completely different (and morally reprehensible) person and jamming propaganda down our throat that ends up having atrocious implications in-universe?

You know, it makes me laugh that Phoenix said his new system was needed to avoid a Dark Age of the Law. Given that it exists in the fifth game, I'd like to believe that his system caused it instead. Heh.


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Post #42
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post Sep 3 2015, 04:16 AM
Yeah, they really should've either made AA4 all about Apollo or just made a fourth Phoenix game, instead of halfassing it and star a new guy who plays second fiddle to some drunk hobo and the main prosecutor, who also wasn't a very good character.

As a result, they failed to give Apollo the attention he needed to be fully developed as a character, while Phoenix's misplaced new characterisation and newfound Sue powers prohibit him from being an enjoyable character either, leaving an ultimately unsatisfying experience no matter what one wanted out of the game.

Combine that with a sub-par supporting cast (I only remember liking Valant.), and a lack of a coherent narrative structure leading to two filler cases, and the ultimate result is a game only marginally better than Phoenix Weight vs. Professor Layton.
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Post #43
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post Sep 3 2015, 04:23 AM
What was the problem with LaytonXPhoenix, exactly? While we're on the topic, given the idea of "two big case solvers in the same game" being not fully realized seems to fit this topic.


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Post #44
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post Sep 3 2015, 07:31 AM
QUOTE (xoxjoanxox @ Sep 2 2015, 09:44 PM) *
You don't have to read it obviously, but there is an analysis I liked explaining the difference between Apollo and Phoenix.

Why can't you explain the differences between the two yourself instead of linking other people's blogs and btw the reason people call Apollo a clone of Phoenix is because Apollo acted a lot like Phoenix did in the first game with very minor differences in character.


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Post #45
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post Sep 3 2015, 11:57 AM
QUOTE (P Dot Alex @ Sep 3 2015, 08:23 AM) *
What was the problem with LaytonXPhoenix, exactly? While we're on the topic, given the idea of "two big case solvers in the same game" being not fully realized seems to fit this topic.


Well gameplay wise (So far, I think I'm like 2/3rds of the way through it) both sides seem to have dumbed things way down. Story wise it's a really thin way of mashing together two great tastes that are just really incompatible. If solving the puzzles was the way to get evidence and clues for the court cases then you might have had something. As it stands you really only have a Layton game and plot that is interrupted by the trials. You really only have a half of a game each way you look at it, and neither of them meet in a satisfying way.


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Post #46
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post Sep 3 2015, 12:22 PM
That's kind of a shame, given how the plot in any given Layton game is actually one of the driving forces (for me, anyway).


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Post #47
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post Sep 3 2015, 01:11 PM
QUOTE (P Dot Alex @ Sep 3 2015, 02:23 PM) *
What was the problem with LaytonXPhoenix, exactly? While we're on the topic, given the idea of "two big case solvers in the same game" being not fully realized seems to fit this topic.

Quite right. So allow me to take a shot at this.

Attached Image

Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright

Premise:
Two characters from different franchises end up in a medieval fantasy world where they have to join forces and uncover the mystery of this world.

What I Expected:
Phoenix and Layton combine their talents at puzzling and courtrooming to solve a case neither would be able to solve on their own, teaching both of them the value of friendship and cooperation.

What I Got:
Professor Layton and Some Other Guys, where Layton effectively ends up as the single real protagonist, while everyone else just serves as his sidekicks.
By the final case, Layton has already solved the case on his own, and the game has to come up with contrived reasons for Layton to not just explain the plot and instead allow Phoenix to discover the slowly discover the truth on his own behalf.

Phoenix's nature as the perennial underdog fails to work in a situation where he isn't allowed to overcome the much more dangerous villain through stubbornness and quick thinking, so when paired up against the Paragon of Perfect Gentlemanness that is Layton, he just comes across as woefully inadequate and unable to bring anything to the table that Layton couldn't accomplish on his own.

Additionally, the story fails to make an effort to make the whimsical adventure-filled world of Layton mesh with the darker, more serious world of Ace Attorney, as while it initially comes across as a Ace Attorney style narrative, by the end, it turned out to be a Layton Misadventure without any real consequences.
Except for all the horrifying ethical concerns that go completely overlooked, as apparently, the English government has been experimenting with mind control drugs, and left the operation in the hands of some psychopath who uses it to live out his own fantasies as maniacal dictator instead of anything resembling actual research.

Sure, supposedly all the participants agreed and signed a contract to have their memories rewritten and live in some pseudo-medieval fantasy world, but given the presence of children and the fact that the people are set up to believe that they murdered people with their non-existent magical powers and subsequently set to believe they're about to be burned to death and have their memories rewritten again so they can work to maintain the illusion, there should probably be more than a few questions raised about just what England is trying to accomplish here.

Conclusion:
Shu Takumi forgets what made Phoenix Wright entertaining and jerks off Layton for twenty hours.
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Post #48
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post Sep 3 2015, 01:16 PM
Weird... you'd think he'd be jerking off Phoenix instead.


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post Sep 3 2015, 01:21 PM
I'm guessing he just has an extremely unsubtle fetish for top hats.
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post Oct 21 2015, 05:06 PM
Highschool DxD

Plot: A highschool boy named Hyoudo Issei is desperate for a relationship. He finally finds one, but turns out that the girl is a fallen angel and kills him to prevent some hidden powerful tool placed inside him from being used. He gets revived as a devil by a group of devils who are also his classmates.

Potential: It could have been a great story about a guy who was gifted with the potential to be great through hardwork, and a little bit of help from a powerful but mysterious weapon, and getting hot bitches legit in the process, and eventually discovering more about the world.

What we got: A story about a guy with the gifts of Mary Sue. He never really does much training. And yet he's always reminded in story through the words of others as to why he's still too weak to be a mary sue, and yet he always wins in the fights where he should probably be dead meat. He never works hard to obtain a new power. He just discovers it, fights, wins, and now girls wet their panties like the TV Tropes pantheon wets theirs at the sight of this guy. First season is a good example. All in all, without the power up he received, he would lose to the final antagonist of the first season. AND YET ALL HE HAS TO DO TO WIN, AFTER PONDERING HOW TO WIN, IS TALK TO THE MAGIC REPTILE LIVING IN HIS HAND, AND GET THE FUCKING POWER UP THAT MAY AS WELL BE LITERAL PLOT ARMOR IN ARMOR FORM. And what does he lose in return? A normal looking arm that gets fixed by simple magic from a bunch of simps who can't even beat the same guy who got beat by the dragon armor plot armor.

Even with his normal power of boosting and doubling his strength every 10 seconds without limit aside from being able to handle it physically (Like a literal Kaio-Ken times 2), HE NEVER SEEMS TO RUN INTO THAT PROBLEM. It's just there to disguise his mary sue status. And throughout the LN, he never really does train for anything achieved other than gaining complete free access of a previous already found power up that he doesn't seem to need training to access. Unlike some series with tension, like the Frieza fight in Z, he never has that same tension.

At least in Z everything was properly built up to that point (The build up was never the same after) and the MC took a beating before he got the power up mid battle for reasons suspected, but in DxD it's just a bunch of unlegit power ups for stupid reasons that don't get chocked up to boobs. And non of the villains seem to match the so called crap told about how powerful they are. They get told they're that strong just to make Issei look better by comparison, and just to excuse having that many chicks fall for someone who may as well be a younger, and less desperate touchy Master Roshi.

And the fans who do fanfiction can be pretty fucking bad. Whenever they write fanfics, they always seem to put something in the summary like "godlike Issei" or "OP Issei". And they call this amazing writing... Especially the crossovers. I saw one with the most stupidest reasons to give Issei his god status. By having him be related to Saitama from OnePunch Man. And yet Saitama would be a better thing to focus on. He's only mentioned just to excuse Issei being god of the mary sues in the fics.

I love the tits. But the story can take a hike. It was okay, but barely enough to warrant me caring if the series does end prematurely. The only thing I might get a little ticked with is if I don't get to see any more beautiful tits and redheads. Not by much though.


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Post #51
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post Oct 21 2015, 05:58 PM
QUOTE (KaiserTrigger @ Oct 21 2015, 05:06 PM) *
Highschool DxD

Plot: A highschool boy named Hyoudo Issei is desperate for a relationship. He finally finds one, but turns out that the girl is a fallen angel and kills him to prevent some hidden powerful tool placed inside him from being used. He gets revived as a devil by a group of devils who are also his classmates.

Potential: It could have been a great story about a guy who was gifted with the potential to be great through hardwork, and a little bit of help from a powerful but mysterious weapon, and getting hot bitches legit in the process, and eventually discovering more about the world.

What we got: A story about a guy with the gifts of Mary Sue. He never really does much training. And yet he's always reminded in story through the words of others as to why he's still too weak to be a mary sue, and yet he always wins in the fights where he should probably be dead meat. He never works hard to obtain a new power. He just discovers it, fights, wins, and now girls wet their panties like the TV Tropes pantheon wets theirs at the sight of this guy. First season is a good example. All in all, without the power up he received, he would lose to the final antagonist of the first season. AND YET ALL HE HAS TO DO TO WIN, AFTER PONDERING HOW TO WIN, IS TALK TO THE MAGIC REPTILE LIVING IN HIS HAND, AND GET THE FUCKING POWER UP THAT MAY AS WELL BE LITERAL PLOT ARMOR IN ARMOR FORM. And what does he lose in return? A normal looking arm that gets fixed by simple magic from a bunch of simps who can't even beat the same guy who got beat by the dragon armor plot armor.

Even with his normal power of boosting and doubling his strength every 10 seconds without limit aside from being able to handle it physically (Like a literal Kaio-Ken times 2), HE NEVER SEEMS TO RUN INTO THAT PROBLEM. It's just there to disguise his mary sue status. And throughout the LN, he never really does train for anything achieved other than gaining complete free access of a previous already found power up that he doesn't seem to need training to access. Unlike some series with tension, like the Frieza fight in Z, he never has that same tension.

At least in Z everything was properly built up to that point (The build up was never the same after) and the MC took a beating before he got the power up mid battle for reasons suspected, but in DxD it's just a bunch of unlegit power ups for stupid reasons that don't get chocked up to boobs. And non of the villains seem to match the so called crap told about how powerful they are. They get told they're that strong just to make Issei look better by comparison, and just to excuse having that many chicks fall for someone who may as well be a younger, and less desperate touchy Master Roshi.

And the fans who do fanfiction can be pretty fucking bad. Whenever they write fanfics, they always seem to put something in the summary like "godlike Issei" or "OP Issei". And they call this amazing writing... Especially the crossovers. I saw one with the most stupidest reasons to give Issei his god status. By having him be related to Saitama from OnePunch Man. And yet Saitama would be a better thing to focus on. He's only mentioned just to excuse Issei being god of the mary sues in the fics.

I love the tits. But the story can take a hike. It was okay, but barely enough to warrant me caring if the series does end prematurely. The only thing I might get a little ticked with is if I don't get to see any more beautiful tits and redheads. Not by much though.



First off, simmer down on the rage a little bit, it's shit, we get it, don't get so worked up over it.

As for your points, yeah, I pretty much agree. and having read a few of the light novels and watched a season or two of the anime, I came to this conclusion about the potential loss:

It started out pretty good, had a nice setup, even a bit of decent drama with Issei getting murdered by one hot chick then revived by another (the light novels actually do something with this plot point by having Issei be afraid to get close to women despite his perviness due to his understandable fear that if he lets down his guard, he gets shanked again, so they worked in a bit of realistic PTSD), but this never gets brought up in the anime at all.

The first season and first few light novels aren't too terrible, believe it or not, no worse than any other harem fighting anime with boobs at least, but the flaws come up pretty quick.

First off, Issei only has an artificial weakness, otherwise he would be god moding the setting, and the excuses contrived to keep him from god moding gets weaker over time. Second, the story introduces its own mythology and plot points, and there is some interesting world building in the light novels, but it's all background noise most of the time, little more than an impetus for Issei to Gary Stu his way past another villain.

Finally, while it's typical ecchi harem bullshit, this is a show where it's pretty damn likely this guy could get laid, and the later light novels all but state he eventually has gotten his rocks off, but the anime is filled with pure cock tease nonsense. I wasn't exactly hoping to see this guy get boned on screen, but at least the light novels eventually quit dancing around the subject of that happening like the anime.

Finally, what is most damning is how Issei gets his harem. Seriously, aside from Rias Gremory, who has something of a reason to have a thing for him, Akeno (who seems to have an NTR fetish), and Asia (who, in what has to be one of the few decent bits of drama the series has, understandably fell for Issei because he stuck up for her when almost no one else would), the reasons the other ladies have for jumping on his dick are all pretty contrived, and eventually even the light novels don't bother trying to be clever about why yet another lady want to ride his dick.

In short, this did have some promise despite the cheesecake, but devolved into a Mary Sue fantasy that doesn't even pretend to give a damn about justifying it's own bullshit and pretty much rides on its fanservice and wish fuflillment and little more.


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Post #52
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post Oct 21 2015, 06:01 PM
QUOTE (Geth N7 @ Oct 21 2015, 08:58 PM) *
First off, simmer down on the rage a little bit, it's shit, we get it, don't get so worked up over it.

As for your points, yeah, I pretty much agree. and having read a few of the light novels and watched a season or two of the anime, I came to this conclusion about the potential loss:

It started out pretty good, had a nice setup, even a bit of decent drama with Issei getting murdered by one hot chick then revived by another (the light novels actually do something with this plot point by having Issei be afraid to get close to women despite his perviness due to his understandable fear that if he lets down his guard, he gets shanked again, so they worked in a bit of realistic PTSD), but this never gets brought up in the anime at all.

The first season and first few light novels aren't too terrible, believe it or not, no worse than any other harem fighting anime with boobs at least, but the flaws come up pretty quick.

First off, Issei only has an artificial weakness, otherwise he would be god moding the setting, and the excuses contrived to keep him from god moding gets weaker over time. Second, the story introduces its own mythology and plot points, and there is some interesting world building in the light novels, but it's all background noise most of the time, little more than an impetus for Issei to Gary Stu his way past another villain.

Finally, while it's typical ecchi harem bullshit, this is a show where it's pretty damn likely this guy could get laid, and the later light novels all but state he eventually has gotten his rocks off, but the anime is filled with pure cock tease nonsense. I wasn't exactly hoping to see this guy get boned on screen, but at least the light novels eventually quit dancing around the subject of that happening like the anime.

Finally, what is most damning is how Issei gets his harem. Seriously, aside from Rias Gremory, who has something of a reason to have a thing for him, Akeno (who seems to have an NTR fetish), and Asia (who, in what has to be one of the few decent bits of drama the series has, understandably fell for Issei because he stuck up for her when almost no one else would), the reasons the other ladies have for jumping on his dick are all pretty contrived, and eventually even the light novels don't bother trying to be clever about why yet another lady want to ride his dick.

In short, this did have some promise despite the cheesecake, but devolved into a Mary Sue fantasy that doesn't even pretend to give a damn about justifying it's own bullshit and pretty much rides on its fanservice and wish fuflillment and little more.


You taking it way too seriously if you're asking me to simmer down. It's just a rant. I wouldn't even call him a Gary Stu. To me, if you want to be one, you gotta be a lot more than just substance. You gotta have style. Like Dante from Devil May Cry. Namely his Devil Mary Cry 3 and 4 appearances. In the first two, he was less theatrical and wild in his movements unless you count his backflips and shit in DMC2 as the same thing as surfing a missile in mid flight.

This post has been edited by KaiserTrigger: Oct 21 2015, 06:09 PM


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Post #53
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post Oct 21 2015, 06:35 PM
QUOTE (KaiserTrigger @ Oct 21 2015, 06:01 PM) *
You taking it way too seriously if you're asking me to simmer down. It's just a rant. I wouldn't even call him a Gary Stu. To me, if you want to be one, you gotta be a lot more than just substance. You gotta have style. Like Dante from Devil May Cry. Namely his Devil Mary Cry 3 and 4 appearances. In the first two, he was less theatrical and wild in his movements unless you count his backflips and shit in DMC2 as the same thing as surfing a missile in mid flight.


Alright, fair enough, your point is duly noted.

Anyway, maybe it's because I come from a troper background, but Issei would be Gary Stu simply because the plot is staged to make him look good no matter what, even when there is no reason for it. He even gets killed off around the tenth light novel and literally DEAD for two or three more before he's brought back to life, and the story still revolved around him even when he was dead, with all the girls basically pining for him constantly and his existence played up as if it would be like removing a pillar from the stability of the universe (he was pretty powerful, but he didn't exactly serve as a pillar of reality itself in canon).

And that's where the series potential goes down the toilet for me. The light novels and even the anime sketched together a pretty intriguing mythology that didn't have to utterly revolve around Issei's existence and while they were waiting for him to be revived they could have explored it in more detail, but nope, even in death he hogs the limelight.

If you want to check out the light novels, you can find them here:

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Main_Page


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post Oct 21 2015, 06:42 PM
QUOTE (Geth N7 @ Oct 21 2015, 09:35 PM) *
Alright, fair enough, your point is duly noted.

Anyway, maybe it's because I come from a troper background, but Issei would be Gary Stu simply because the plot is staged to make him look good no matter what, even when there is no reason for it. He even gets killed off around the tenth light novel and literally DEAD for two or three more before he's brought back to life, and the story still revolved around him even when he was dead, with all the girls basically pining for him constantly and his existence played up as if it would be like removing a pillar from the stability of the universe (he was pretty powerful, but he didn't exactly serve as a pillar of reality itself in canon).

And that's where the series potential goes down the toilet for me. The light novels and even the anime sketched together a pretty intriguing mythology that didn't have to utterly revolve around Issei's existence and while they were waiting for him to be revived they could have explored it in more detail, but nope, even in death he hogs the limelight.

If you want to check out the light novels, you can find them here:

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Main_Page


I know that I can read them there. I've read my fair share of them on there. And if you know about one of the girls becoming an angel, then you might also know about the contrived plot device that was brought in just so they can do the do.

It's literally as stupid as it sounds.


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Post #55
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post Oct 21 2015, 07:04 PM
QUOTE (KaiserTrigger @ Oct 21 2015, 06:42 PM) *
I know that I can read them there. I've read my fair share of them on there. And if you know about one of the girls becoming an angel, then you might also know about the contrived plot device that was brought in just so they can do the do.

It's literally as stupid as it sounds.


I couldn't agree more.


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post Oct 22 2015, 04:25 PM
Here's another one that I think had wasted potential.


Dragon Ball Fukkatsu No F

Plot: Frieza gets revived. Again. Comes back with a plan for revenge... By training. Wait wut!? That sounds interesting cuz last I checked, he's too much of a special snowflake to try and work hard. But here he is! Now that was interesting. The fighting was pretty cool. But it felt a little too short.

Wasted Potential: It could have shown us a lot more by actually showing not only Frieza doing his training and have a longer fight after a longer movie, but it could have also elaborated more on Goku and Vegeta training under Whis. But no. We hear they trained under him on and off. But no. And we don't even see Frieza train. We just know he did, and now he's all beefed up to a Super Saiyan God level.


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Post #57
Virgil Stormblade


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post Dec 1 2015, 06:01 AM
Assassination Classroom

Premise:A monster that destroys half the moon becomes a teacher for Class 3-E, the worst class in Kunugigaoka Middle School and the students are supposed to kill him within a year or he'll destroy Earth. But said monster, later named Koro-Sensei (even in the dub for some reason even though there's probably a much better way to work around that honorific), is probably the best teacher they ever had.

What I expected:A decent comedy along the lines of Great Teacher Onizuka with some Cromartie High School-esque humor (think the Mechazawa jokes). Except for the students trying to kill the teacher.

What I got:(Note:I only got through the first 5 episodes before dropping it).......Where do I begin? This show is shit. Plain. And. Simple. And I legitimately want to know how ANYONE could enjoy it so much that it's getting a 2ND SEASON. Because there's just so many things to talk about. And I'm not gonna blame it on badly transitioning from anime to manga because I read about it on TV Tropes and wow, the manga is just a goldmine of shit. Let's talk about the main character. Wow, talk about bland. He is the most bland main character I've seen in quite a while. And considering the other characters aren't that much better, and that I've seen bland main characters that are less bland than him, this just makes him pathetic. And what's worse is that he could've been so much better. Aside from the fact that he has the potential to be the best assassin of the students because main character of a Shonen, and the fact that he decides to use this potential to protect everyone 2 CHAPTERS LATER (nevermind the fact that he has to kill Koro-sensei or Koro-sensei will destroy the world) because Shonen, he could've been so much better.

Before you ask, yes, the main character is in fact, a guy. Despite his name. And his body. And his general appearance. But the reason behind that is goddamn ingenious. The reason why he looks like a girl is because his mother is so delusional, she forces him to be a girl and won't even acknowledge his gender. And you know how this conflict is resolved? The mother says she's sorry, and all's well that ends well........What? You thought I was joking? HAHAHAAHHAHA. Yeah, I'm dead serious. THAT'S HOW THE CONFLICT ENDS. AND HE STILL DRESSES LIKE A GIRL FOR NO APPARENT REASON AFTER THIS. WTF?! Speaking of pure whatthefuckery, you know why this ONE CLASS is in a remote area? Because they have the worst test scores in the school. And it's not even that they're bad, it's just that their school has ridiculously high standards. Hell, their test scores are around 90. AROUND 90! And this goes for the ones that look like delinquents too! And then there's the pacing. It feels like they just adapted the manga without taking into account the differences between manga and anime. Also, the students of Class 3-E seem a little too accepting of the fact that they're being entrusted to kill a monster. Who is also their teacher. Seriously, it just shows one scene of them being shocked by this and then "BAM!", they like Koro-sensei all of a sudden. And this is from the FIRST EPISODE, btw. In fact, I don't think any of the students seem to be conflicted on having to kill a teacher who is actually nice to them unlike the rest of Kunugigaoka's faculty.

Not only that, but it's obnoxiously over-the-top. Some things are more toned down, but the anime's pretty ridiculous. Class 3-E are treated like shit BY THE ENTIRE SCHOOL BODY. Except for the principal, who probably doesn't give a fuck. Seriously, expect every character from the school not from Class 3-E to be a Grade A slimy, over-the-top jackass. I wouldn't complain about it so much if it wasn't for A:the villains being bland. or B.how seriously it takes itself. Seriously. This premise and all the over-the-top stuff is played for serious drama and is supposed to be taken with a straight face. You know how Batman:The Brave and the Bold took itself seriously, but with a winking nod acknowledging how goofy the whole thing is? Not this anime. And don't even get me started on how cliched it is.

Overall, a decent idea, but is ruined by retardedness and can only be enjoyed by retards.

How I would fix it:Take itself less seriously. Have some Cromartie-esque jokes in it. Take place in a regular school, because that one class in a remote area idea is retarded. Have the students be at first scared of Koro-sensei, but as the story progresses, show them being in conflict with them having to kill a teacher who treats them very well and solves their problems. Have them be shocked by the asinine ways he can escape death regardless of how elaborate the plan was. Have them be shocked at how anticlimactic his weaknesses are when they've been trying to kill him. Characters that aren't fucking boring. And a good ending to the series would probably be Koro-sensei getting accidentally killed by a joybuzzer after the students have grown attached to him.

This post has been edited by Virgil Stormblade: Dec 1 2015, 06:05 AM


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