SOPA and Co., Internet Censorship and other fun games Options

[Soba]

As was mentioned in the HOTD2 thread, this probably needs it's own topic. Freely discuss your stance on the bills, but try not to be too cruel if this boils down to squabbling between members.

Personally, I'm against the bill. From what I've seen about it, it's just too easy for a site to be blacklisted, and security could be compromised potentially. And IF this bill passes, chances are there will be quite a bit of varied protests.

SO my dear friends of PA, what's your take?

[Shmeckie]

I doubt it'll even be passed. This isn't the first bill of its kind, and they all end the same way.

[Master of AFTER]

Ehh, any laws related to copyright and/or IP protection are always such a complicated beast that I find them difficult to comment on... The whole issue is a thorny one, to say the least.

On the one hand, I agree that something needs to be done about online piracy—say what you will about corporate greed, but piracy really does take a sizable chunk out of the profit margins for a lot of software and digital entertainment developers and it's totally unrealistic to expect them not to do anything about it. As a moral issue, I've yet to see anyone make a compelling argument why illegal downloads are any better than any conventional form of thievery; as a practical issue, all the crap people complain about regarding content streaming, DRM, DLC, online pass codes, and all that other bullshit currently causing headaches for people who buy software are largely due to companies trying to prevent (or recoup losses from) illegal distribution of their products. Even if you take the morality issue out of it completely, the fact remains that piracy benefits a small portion of people while causing no end of problems for the greater majority.

On the reverse side of the coin, bills like SOPA generally do a poor job of "fixing" piracy while oftentimes causing a variety of problems themselves. This particular bill foolishly places the responsibility of stopping piracy on companies that shouldn't have to waste resources becoming babysitters that have to constantly monitor the every action of their users—SOPA claims to be drafted for the purpose of protecting jobs, yet it's facing fierce opposition from corporate giants like Google, Facebook, eBay, and Mozilla, just to name a few. I think that fact alone is proof that the bill doesn't do what it aims to do. There's also the whole slippery slope issue regarding invasion of privacy and of course the numerous worrisome implications of increased government regulation over the internet.

TL;DR: Internet piracy is a legitimate problem that needs to be stopped before it cripples an industry that our economy relies on, but it's extremely difficult to say how exactly we should go about stopping it without opening a Pandora's box of legal and social ramifications. Obviously Congress doesn't have the answer, and I doubt they will until we get some politicians in there who actually understand how the internet and digital commerce work.

[Soba]

You hit the nail on the head boss, that's a lot of where I was coming from. Especially the bit regarding the slippery slope. I heard the bill had a lot of support, but I'd rather it not pass.

[Kinomoto Sei]

I saw something about this when I opened up Firefox today. Reading up about it, a lot of people are opposed to it, and for good reason.

As for the issues behind it, I agree with MoA that there are two sides to the coin. I don't think that piracy could be effectively stopped with legislation, and I think the problem lies in the thought that internet piracy can be put to a halt all at once. Although there is no clear solution just yet, I think that there could be something done about piracy if it starts with some of the most simple things, such as banning download websites. Although it wouldn't completely stop piracy right away, I think it would be a step in the right direction.

[Viashino_wizard]

TL;DR: Internet piracy is a legitimate problem that needs to be stopped before it cripples an industry that our economy relies on, but it's extremely difficult to say how exactly we should go about stopping it without opening a Pandora's box of legal and social ramifications.  Obviously Congress doesn't have the answer, and I doubt they will until we get some politicians in there who actually understand how the internet and digital commerce work.

Hell, most politicians don't know how regular commerce works.

[GFW]

Piracy does need stopping somehow but this ain't the correct way. it dosen't stop them from being accessed, hell, you'll be able to access these sites just by putting in the IP! ALso you can just tell it'll be misused.

[Soba]

I've been looking, but I don't have any news on its' progress so far. There's a good chance that a LOT of citizens will protest this bill if it passes. Not saying that the protests will do anything, but who knows.

[Al_Cone]

I've been looking, but I don't have any news on its' progress so far. There's a good chance that a LOT of citizens will protest this bill if it passes. Not saying that the protests will do anything, but who knows.

It has widespread support from both parties. It's a bifuckingpartisan bill, so of course it's something completely detrimental to society. That's just how the system works, I guess; when the parties work together, it's to push something stupid.

This one could conceivably pass, I think.

[Viashino_wizard]

It has widespread support from both parties. It's a bifuckingpartisan bill, so of course it's something completely detrimental to society. That's just how the system works, I guess; when the parties work together, it's to push something stupid.

This one could conceivably pass, I think.

Hopefully google will throw enough money at them to change their minds.

[Soba]

I heard that at some panel, google was being bashed for it's support, something about pharmacy sites. But there are a lot of big companies against it.

There's a chance it will pass, but I wonder if it will be able to stay active for long. People will always find ways to get around internet laws, I've already seen people preparing for it.

[TigerEyes]

Honestly, I highly doubt that this would put a dent in piracy at all, even if it was passed. Even with all the censorship the Chinese government puts on the internet over there, China still has LOADS of piracy; even more so than here.

Actually have mixed feelings about the piracy over there, since it does allow them to get a chance to see a lot of movies/get a lot of information that would otherwise be censored and/or not distributed at all in the public markets...

This post has been edited by TigerEyes: Nov 17 2011, 10:06 AM

[Soba]

Honestly, I highly doubt that this would put a dent in piracy at all, even if it was passed.  Even with all the censorship the Chinese government puts on the internet over there, China still has LOADS of piracy; even more so than here.

Actually have mixed feelings about the piracy over there, since it does allow them to get a chance to see a lot of movies/get a lot of information that would otherwise be censored and/or not distributed at all in the public markets...

That's a good example really. Methods like this just won't work, and good hackers will just have all sorts of fun destroying these things.

[Master of AFTER]

Honestly, I highly doubt that this would put a dent in piracy at all, even if it was passed.  Even with all the censorship the Chinese government puts on the internet over there, China still has LOADS of piracy; even more so than here.

Actually have mixed feelings about the piracy over there, since it does allow them to get a chance to see a lot of movies/get a lot of information that would otherwise be censored and/or not distributed at all in the public markets...

I think digital piracy in countries like China should be addressed as a separate issue because you do have factors to consider like how it's sometimes used to circumvent government censorship. If it wasn't for underground file sharing sites, countries like North Korea and Burma wouldn't even have access to news feeds besides the propaganda-saturated lies their own governments put out. In the US, on the other hand, piracy is a much more morally clear-cut issue where the motivation is almost always people trying to get out of paying for the things they own. Unless you're like Arc, of course, and think stealing software made by a company you don't like constitutes a righteous cause in the same vein as fighting against an authoritarian regime.

[Soba]

Ha, Arc is pirateman after all. Does anyone have any news about how the bill's doing? I haven't seen a whole lot online.

[TigerEyes]

I think digital piracy in countries like China should be addressed as a separate issue because you do have factors to consider like how it's sometimes used to circumvent government censorship.  If it wasn't for underground file sharing sites, countries like North Korea and Burma wouldn't even have access to news feeds besides the propaganda-saturated lies their own governments put out.  In the US, on the other hand, piracy is a much more morally clear-cut issue where the motivation is almost always people trying to get out of paying for the things they own.  Unless you're like Arc, of course, and think stealing software made by a company you don't like constitutes a righteous cause in the same vein as fighting against an authoritarian regime.

I agree; that's a really fair way to put it.

This post has been edited by TigerEyes: Nov 17 2011, 07:36 PM

[GFW]

The thing that annoys me about piraters is they are proud of it. On a forum I go on a guy posted saying that he happily pirated and didn't care if because of piracy his favourite artists had to stop recording because they couldn't afford it.

[Soba]

So Uh.... I know it's just committee but...

[Al_Cone]

Rep. Mel Watt (D-North Carolina) said he was not a technological “nerd,” but said he did not “believe” security experts who said that the internet would become less secure unless Issa’s amendment was adopted. “I’m not a person to argue about the technology of this,” Watt said before he voted against the amendment. Issa’s amendment failed 22-12.

"I have no idea how this shit works. Hmm. Better vote against it, just to be on the safe side."

fucking

EDIT: I love how he implies that experts--authorities on this issue, a company which he is not a part of--are just "nerds" and dismisses their council based on that judgment. North Carolina can fuck itself for electing this ignorant shit.

This post has been edited by Al_Cone: Dec 15 2011, 09:10 PM

[Soba]

So, I'm getting more than a little nervous about this. Torch and pitchfork time, anyone?